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  • #46
    G402 at 32.99$ http://www.ncix.com/detail/logitech-...00650-1283.htm
    Worth it!!!!!!

    Dam I like the price match system 21$ back to buy another mouse
    Last edited by Muscat; 07-03-2015, 01:27 PM.

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    • #47
      There is no way I could test any mouse soo fast. I make any little change,mouse, keyboard, screen, desk, or chair and I need a month.

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      • #48
        It is a fast overview, review ...The video is coming too with all the mice just to see the size and shape when they are all together. Of course only time say if those mice are durable but some elements can be detected fast. They really make big mistakes when they lauch products like that. Another thing is your own hand shape. I have a really standard hand shape for an adult but the gaming product is released mostly for children. Many gaming mice are really small these days or made to fit both adult and child hands. The result is weird shaped mice not really perfect for any hand shapes.

        I can already say for the NAGA EPIC CHROMA. This mouse is way overpriced for what you got and out of the box I already have stuff not working. The top plastic of the mouse is too shaky and thin. The charger base don't charge. You can plug the mouse directly to its usb port to charge it and that works. You can also just plug the mouse and forget about the wireless. I paid $200 for that mouse just to give you an idea. The quality built is far from the G600 quality I paid $70. Other than that the shape of the NAGA EPIC is very different and fit my hand better than the NAGA HEX. The mouse is laser, the Naga Hex is Optical, the G600 is laser and the shape is really ergonomic too. About the 12 buttons. You can easily press by error the buttons on the NAGA EPIC and really because the way it is made all those buttons are not very confortable for the thumb when playing intensive games. The mouse wheel is very correct. The clicks are also very acceptable even if the plastic screems each time you click. So the sound of the click is not anoying but the cracking sound of the plastic make the mouse feel really cheap made. It is so thin I cannot believe this can be durable. The other parts of the mouse feel very solid and overall the shape fit better than the DeathAdder but the buttons make it lose the war against the G600 I'm gonna review later.

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        • #49
          All the Nagas are back to the store. Asus Strix Claw back to the store and of course the M310

          I don't need to waste a lot of time on the G300s. I already know this is not do the trick just by touching the mouse . Maybe the G303?
          Logitech need to release at least a wireless version of the G402 (this mouse need more weight and that wire kill everything)
          I tested all those mice in Unreal Tournament 4 today. Installed all version of visual studio to realise Unreal engine use only the community version or the full retail version at $500 us.
          Since it is C++ now to code new mods and mutators everything is complicated for nothing. I am not even able to play my own mods since you have many problems with the different compiled versions but anyway back to the mice.

          I am always surprise each time I switch to the G502 and this time is not different. This mouse kill everything. You remove all mouse sensibility and acceleration in the UT4 setting, you plug the G502 at max DPI setting and bam!!! All the tests you have done before with all other mice was just waste of time LOL. I have really hard time to make other mice works and feel correctly except maybe the new Razer DeathAdder Chroma since this mouse works at 10000 DPI. This mouse is also easy to setup in UT. The Razer feel like a old 800 DPI mouse at 0 sensibility in UT4 and the G502 like a 1000 or 1200 DPI mouse at 0 sensibility. You raise the sensibility a bit and that begins to be complicated. So with the other mice it is more complicated and great results is very hard to get. How I explain that? The G402 is very lightweight and the sensor response is a bit weird I think it i mostly because of the stiff plastic mouse wire and the weight of the mice. The mouse can move alone because of the tention on the wire vs weight. The mouse can easily be moved and any shaky movements you do are registered and maybe multiplied because of a some kind of fake DPI rating. LOL Same thing for the Strix Claw even if it is the old DeathAdder sensor you have in this mouse the DPI seems boosted by the driver or software and certainly not gives you 1 on 1 DPI movements. That can be the surface too since I am directly to the desk but that works for the DeathAdder why not for the Strix?.

          Ok THe Strix Claw. The mouse plastic top feel cheap and that is shaky. You place your hand on the mouse and it is an instant click of almost all buttons except the very stiff mouse wheel button. Stiffer than any mice I tested but in game that works well and it is not a problem. The problem is more the fast response and sensibility of everything on this mouse. Buttons, sensor, etc. That can be good but oh too much clicks by error, fast double click the computer or game don't even have time to register. I don't think a mice made like that can last very long. If the mouse was made like the Asus ROG with replacable switches, wire and separate clicks modules I certainly not returned the mouse as fast. The mouse shape is near like the MX1100 and very confortable but overall this mouse don't feel resistant. The vibration of each click echo in the mouse like a OEM mouse that comes with a cheap computer Desktop. The driver, firmware is beta and do weird stuff when you start the beta software you install. Of course the software crash when you try to change DPI setting during a game. You not even able to open the software and the result .. you don't know what is your current DPI or edit the profile to have the right setting in your prefered game.

          The razer NAGA HEX. Mostly the buttons you press by errors, weird shape, too much glossy plastic (inconfort) , Inconfort of the dummy for your thumb. Other than that great sensor and mouse wheel. Clicks feel a bit cheap made plastic.
          The razer NAGA EPIC CHROMA read the previous post. Better shape than many gaming mice but incomfortable after a time because of the angle on the back and buttons section under the thumb. Not working 100% out of the box, cheap thin plastic on top. Maybe short battery life. Overpriced product.

          The G600. Great mouse, great shape. I tested it in UT4 and that works but the mouse shape is very special for UT. I need to try more but already this mouse can be used for many things. The wire is the best mouse wire I have seen to date. Braided and very lightweight. Not stiff at all. Better wire than the G502 even if it looks similar. The mouse clicks feel solid like the Tank (M65) I have in a box near my desk. The mouse also seems built like a tank and have a lot of weight. The base of the mouse seems as solid as the aluminum base of the M65. Figure? Any desktop tasks can be enchanced with this mouse. You have 3 mouse clicks on top and one wheel mouse click for a total of 4. One click button under the ring finger. Only the pinky don't have a button or click. That means a lot of cool combinaisons in game and using the ring finger for alternate fire or anything you want. The buttons on the left are well made so you can press the one you want without pressing another one. They are stiff enough to never have undesirable press when you right or left click. A mouse to try really....
          Last edited by Muscat; 07-07-2015, 12:16 AM.

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          • #50
            Solved the problem with the G402. Logitech has a firmware update for this mouse. The X and Y axis sensibility was not set equal. One of the big mistake they can make when they release new stuff fast.
            Also I forget about the dam mouse pad you need to use with an optical sensor. This mouse don't have the option to adjust the precision on certain surfaces like many Logitech gaming mice and now many other brand mice.
            The cloth mousepad is required for the G402 or the mouse don't response very well. THe G502 don't really need a mousepad but because it is an optical that feels better on a mousepad. At 4000 DPI the sensibility need to be around 0.65 in Unreal Tournament 4. You have a big difference at each 0.01 steps. Now the mouse do really great in FPS not just in other game types. The mouse don't move as easy as direct on the desk and that solve at the same time the mouse moving alone problem because of the cable or the wind. LOL

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            • #51
              My g500 has been double clicking when I single click. I thought I was going to have to replace it, but decided to look into the issue. It looks like there is a solution:

              http://community.pcgamingwiki.com/pa...on-repair-r152

              Going to give it a try later.

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              • #52
                Originally posted by =A!M=OakWind View Post
                My g500 has been double clicking when I single click. I thought I was going to have to replace it, but decided to look into the issue. It looks like there is a solution:

                http://community.pcgamingwiki.com/pa...on-repair-r152

                Going to give it a try later.
                It is easy to repair. In fact you don't need to repair in most case. I cleaned and fixed my old Intellimouse yesterday. The right click was broken. You can open the defect switch only in one side and everything in the switch gonna pop like it was before if you are lucky. You don't even need to see what is in the switch. Just push to replace the side of the switch after that et voila.
                Mine works like new. I have done that because I started to look at the Zowie and Steelseries Sensei. Those mice are very similar to the intellimouse optical. Steelseries are selling more Intellimouse than anything they created LOL. The Intellimouse shape is a classic reference so...

                I ordered the Mionix Naos 7000 at Massdrop since it is very complicated and expensive to get it in Canada. Here is the link if anyone is interrested. This mouse has one of the best sensor on the market and it is one if not the most ergonomic horizontal mouse out there. More we have people more the price drop. (9 days left and 16 purchased since yesterday noon) Massdrop Mionix Naos 7000
                Last edited by Muscat; 07-11-2015, 03:53 PM.

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                • #53
                  8 days left and 82 ordered already. Price dropped to $39.99. Qty Max is 200. I think in 3 days we gonna reach the max. I don't know if the price can drop more... First time I try this...

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                  • #54
                    Here is some mice I tested
                    mice test1.jpg
                    In order Left to right:
                    MS Sculpt mobile mouse
                    Top: VENTUS X , M500 , Performance Mouse MX, M65 , G502
                    Bottom: LX7 , MX620 , M705 , G602 , MX Master

                    gamingMice.jpg
                    In order clockwise from the red one:
                    Razer Naga Hex, Razer Naga Epic Chroma, G402 , Asus Strix Claw, G600 , Razer DeathAdder, Corsair M65, G502
                    Last edited by Muscat; 07-27-2015, 04:24 PM.

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                    • #55
                      So many mice.

                      So few balls.

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                      • #56
                        I received the Mionix Naos 7000 2 days ago. It is a very different design with something similar to the G600 for the fourth finger. At first that was a bit weird because every angles are not as prononced as all the mice I tested. The mouse is not so high so the angle at the front is not that prononced like the old Logitech mice. The entire mouse seems rubberised so it is less slippy than the G402 for example and feel great in the hand. I don't think it is rubber... more a plastic finish like the Ventus X. Because the mouse is some minimeters lower, the front angle very long and the back very soft the grip is in fact just the front of your hand fitting the shape of the mouse. The soft grip on the side and high weight of the mouse limit a bit any mouse lifting during intense gaming session. The back of your hand has a soft very limited support because of some minimeters less on height. You have less mouse sweet because of that and of course the plastic finish. The back of your hand rub the desk like a small gaming mouse Your movements are not as great as a small mouse but I think more acceptable than a bigger mouse like the Logitech MX Master or MX Performance. The mouse feel more like a laser mouse even if it is an optical. The response seems better directly on the desk than on a mouse pad. Now the buttons: The switches are certainly great but the top plastic is in one piece like all the many low quality mice out there. No additionnal internal plastic shapes to absorb the vibration and impact of the clicks like the classic Intellimouse and all the Logitech. So that means when you click you can feel and hear the plastic rubbing the switch and the vibration and echo of that. It is not a high quality product like the Logitech mice and when I say that that means there is no way to charge $50 and over for that kind of product. It is not the end of the world but that makes the mouse clicks just as good as a standard Dell mouse or a $10 Logitech, Microsoft Desktop mouse. I returned the Asus Strix very fast for that reason. The Razer mice have nearly the same built quality with a more tiny plastic LOL. The echo, vibration and cheap feeling is less a problem than the Strix because mainly of the shape I'm pretty sure. I can pass on it for now. That makes great right clicks but very bad left clicks. Because of that the G402 I paid $30 has a way better built quality. Another weird thing about this mouse is the wheel. The wheel position is very low and seems to much at the back even if not. But because of the low position the grip on the wheel is not that great even if it is full rubber with dents. The wheel is very stiff too so at the end not a great feeling about it but let's see my verdict with more gaming experience with that mouse. For the software.. So far it works.. Multiple profiles like the G502, G700. The limited number of buttons on the mouse don't give you a chance to set a profile changer on it but it is good to have it. Just don't forget to switch with the software before launching the game that can be tricky during the game. A lot of options in the not so good looking interface I have not tested now. So for me it is not a bad purchase. The shape deserve/worth the try. The price I paid is somewhere the price of a new standard enchanced desktop mouse.

                        I purchased the M500 again. A nice price drop last week at Staples. The new one seems better than the first I tested. More weight, better clicks and mouse wheel.. figure... Happy with my purchase so far... I bought the mouse at BestBuy this time with a pricematch. The pricematch at Staples is a bit tricky. At BestBuy you have a stand with 2 computers, 2 transaction pods and 3 employees waiting most of the time just for that all the time. LOL this store is crazy for that even if nobody know it here in Canada. But don't buy cellphones at BestBuy, you need a 2 years phone contract you cannot broke. No full priced high end refundable cellphones just dam contracts.
                        Last edited by Muscat; 08-12-2015, 11:30 AM.

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                        • #57
                          OK I think it is my final words on that for a long time.

                          What is a good gaming mouse?
                          I think I have the answer after all these tests and collected informations from bad and good sources.

                          1. The mouse need separated click buttons (plastic parts). (if it is not the case it is a bad sign especially if it is not a high end Logitech mouse)
                          For example: The classic Intellimouse, The G502, G402, G303, MX Master, G602. Old discontinued (G3,G9x)
                          Why? Better click response and feel, If the mouse plastic start to be used or change shape a bit because of the heat in a single top plastic part mouse, the mouse is good for the trashcan because just a simple change in the shape and there is no real solution to get your old nice mouse click back since if you add tape or anything to try to fix that this gonna impact all the top of the mouse including the other side. Believe me....

                          2. Wired mouse. Yes you have some nice wireless mice out there but seriously whatever you try wired is always the way to go for the required fast response time. If you go wireless be sure to buy the G602. You don't have many choices and Logitech stay the best product you can get for that. The problem with wired mouse is the cable gonna broke someday (soon) and if you don't replace it fast that can lead to a broken sensor. So if your mouse start doing weird stuff time to change the cable (right now) if you don't want to buy another mouse.

                          3. Sensor with NO acceleration or near. This can be a choice too because some people can be accustomed to acceleration in game. I though I was myself accustomed but I read the Intellimouse I used for years don't have much acceleration and it is why this mouse is dam good for gaming and for many other reasons of course. Here is a list: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=56240.0 . This not the complete list. I have another link on this thread. Check it out.

                          4. A mouse that fit the front of your hand if it is small or your entire hand if it is a big one. This is by far the most important thing but if you search just for the shape in head you gonna end modding an ergonic non gaming mouse. Like the M500, etc. Not the best option but works in many non fps games until the mouse click problems happens. Many years in fact

                          5. teh dam DPI. Is it important or not? I seriously think it is important but not because of your gaming session. It is more because you not gonna use the same DPI during game and desktop session. You can also find a game that require specific DPI adjustments for your need. What is important is to be able to change DPI ranging to at least 400-2500. You really need the 400, 800 and 1000 DPI for gaming. 1600-2500 for the desktop. 4000-12000 for some kind of easy setup with high sensibility game that gives you that possibility but get ready to waste a lot of time with the DPI stuff if you go there.

                          6.Find a mouse that fit your grip. Most people use palm grip but some special gamers use different grips to have some kind of fast response. Here is some info on that: http://www.epicgear.com/en/technolog...-of-mouse-grip

                          7. At least 2 buttons on the side if you play MMO RPG, FPS. One sniper button if you play FPS can be good but even if I have one in many of my mice I don't really use it. The 2 buttons are mostly for autorun, melee attack, throw weapon. Very useful in desperate last action in a fight. It makes all the difference! One button by side for the melee in FPS and autorun in RPG MMO can do the trick (see Intellimouse 1.1) but I seriously think this is the strict minimum.

                          8.braided cable I add it there but I really don't know if it is true that braided cable last for ever since it is a new stuff but why take a chance? Rubber cables don't last long a can confirm that so braided cables have a seriously big chance to last longer than rubber just by the way they are made.

                          9. Quality switches. I add this because you have so many cheap mice out there but if you stick with the main brand and separated click buttons (parts) this not gonna be a problem. What you can discover is maybe you like more the clicks of a certain type of switches. You have 2 main brands. The most popular for gaming is the OMRON switch with 30 000 000 clicks. You have many similar OMRON switches but only one model last 30 000 000 clicks. Be aware. But I have a mouse with 10 000 000 clicks I like a lot for the click feel etc. It is not an OMRON etc.. I have it for years.. So... It is more the built quality overall of the mouse. If the mouse is not well made the switch not gonna last long even if it is 30 000 000 clicks and if it is a one piece top mouse this gonna end with a new mouse since the switch can be easily fixed but not the used section of the single top part making your click incorrect and the mouse useless after a time.

                          10. Centered sensor. Again this can be a preference but if your sensor is at the center that means less chance to have problems during gameplay. Because in many games you gonna lift the mouse and this gonna make the difference in a final fight. If your mouse don't respond well (on both side) or just in one side but you lift the mouse the wrong side you are screwed!!

                          11. Good Mouse Wheel. Most mouse wheels are just ok but some brands don't care too much about that or some entry models are very awful. Be aware! Also the game you play can require some kind of specific mouse wheel type. For example: If you have a circular selection for items this can lead with a limited choice for a good mouse wheel since that kind of menu require a stiff wheel mouse with a specific sensibility. Many mouse software have ajustable sensibility for the wheel but that cannot change the physical dents and stiffness of the wheel. Ajustable sensibility can solve the problem with mouse with a well built wheel mouse like the G502 but can be useless for many. I can confirm the wheel are very ok for the Razer mice even if those mice lack of many other important things.

                          12. Large mouse feet I add this there because in 2015 I think it is important to know that a large mouse feet is more durable and stable to maintain always the same height for the sensor beam. Tinny mouse feet are the worst and can scratch your desk if you don't have a mouse pad. Of course tiny means really tiny and we need to look at it because some brands or entry models are horrible for that.

                          13. Optical sensor and mouse pad. Yep Optical sensor are better for gaming for many reasons. Do a google search..... but that also means if you don't have the last high end optical mouse you need a mouse pad. I can confirm that the G502,G303,Mionix 7000 and I guess the Razer DeathAdder don't need necessary a mouse pad if you are directly on the desk but don't dream to much about that. If you don't have a surface analyser in the software better going with a mouse pad. You need to change often the pad since those things are not durable.

                          14. The grip on the side, shape and weight (lifting the mouse) Another important thing some brands take care now is the possibility to easily lift the mouse equally front, back . Very required for moba games. of course the mouse need to be symmetric or nearly symmetric. (ambidextrous a good idea if the brand not have any specific model made with that rule)


                          Why this list because now your choice is limited. You have many...so many mice out there but only some models have everyhting you need for a great gaming mouse. I can already say less than 20 maybe 10.

                          Winner for sure: G502, G303. When you remove some requirement and go for the shape and overall good quality for a gaming mouse you can easily end with the Intellimouse even in 2015. This is not a gaming mouse but dam good at it. If you mod it the way you want you are in paradise. I ordered a braided cable and new mouse feet..... ready for 10 more years with my Intellimouse..........
                          Last edited by Muscat; 08-15-2015, 04:26 PM.

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                          • #58
                            Here is a list of mouse with separated click (parts) :
                            I have not tested all those mice but I am pretty sure now this is the way to go.

                            Intellimouse 1.1
                            Intellimouse ex 3.0
                            Razer Ouroboros (Ready to spend a lot of money?) - Laser -
                            The R.A.T (if you are using 3 fingers on the top of the mouse) - Laser -
                            G303
                            G602 (wireless only)
                            G502
                            G402
                            G302
                            G9x - Laser -
                            G3 - Laser -

                            I cannot say for the quality of these ones but here to enlarge the list

                            R.A.T. 3 - old optical sensor -
                            COUGAR 700M - Laser -
                            Cougar 600M - Laser -
                            Corsair Raptor M30 - old optical sensor -
                            Corsair Raptor LM3 - optical sensor not specified -
                            MSI DS200 - Laser -
                            EpicGear Zora (just to show what it is on a not well know brand) - old optical sensor -
                            Asus Rog sica - optical sensor PMW3310 -
                            Asus Rog Gladius
                            Asus GX1000 - Laser -
                            Asus GX950 - Laser -
                            Asus GX900 - Laser -
                            Tt eSports Level 10 - Laser -
                            Tt eSPORTS Ventus - Laser -
                            CM Storm Mizar - Laser -
                            CM Storm Alcor - old optical sensor -
                            Sentinel advance II - Laser -
                            Gigabyte Aivia - Laser -
                            Gigabyte Mx8000 - Laser -
                            Gigabyte M6580X - Laser -
                            AIRE M93 ICE - Laser -
                            FORCE M9 ICE - Laser -
                            SHARKOON FireGlider - optical version with 3305DK sensor -
                            EpicGear Morpha - not released yet -
                            FinalMouse
                            A4tech Oscar X-748K
                            A4tech Bloody Headshot V7
                            Asus Spatha - not released yet -

                            Mouse sensors list : http://www.esreality.com/wiki/Hardware:Mice_Sensors
                            http://www.overclock.net/t/854100/ga...se-sensor-list
                            Last edited by Muscat; 08-15-2015, 06:41 PM.

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                            • #59
                              The short list is:
                              Logitech G303
                              Logitech G502
                              Logitech G402
                              Logitech G302
                              Asus Rog Gladius (not tested)
                              Asus Rog Sica (not tested) (no side buttons..eliminated?)
                              Sharkoon FireGlider optical (not tested)
                              EpicGear Morpha (not tested)
                              FinalMouse (not tested) (well know rebranded chinese mouse)
                              A4tech Oscar X-748K "Rev.2" (not tested)
                              A4tech Bloody Headshot V7 (not tested)

                              Intellimouse with a braided cable and if you can live with the low DPI you cannot change. Good to play games in low res for sure
                              Last edited by Muscat; 08-15-2015, 07:01 PM.

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                              • #60
                                Corsair just released a new mouse (another tank with many buttons this time )
                                http://www.amazon.com/Corsair-Gaming.../dp/B013KK9JOO
                                No separated mouse clicks but the M65 was well built compared to the other brands. Waiting for some reviews... Don't look at the amazon reviews it is actually people pre-ordering the mouse and rating it 5/5 when they not even tried it.

                                What people really want to know is if the mouse has a microphone and built-in speaker so they can call their friends and parents.
                                Last edited by Muscat; 08-28-2015, 05:19 PM.

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